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Fans Debate: Win Or Not To Win Is Best

Fans Debate: Win Or Not To Win Is Best

Both Coaches need a win, but each could also use a higher draft pick

Both Coaches need a win, but each could also use a higher draft pick as well

With many teams doing poorly, a win or two could move the Fins to the middle of the draft

The Miami Dolphins will be hosting the Denver Broncos this week. The question is not just can they win and stop their 5 game losing streak, but would winning before the best for them, long term?

First, the Fins will be without Damien Williams, Jermon Bushrod, and William Hayes.

So winning, regardless of whether it’s better for the franchise or not, will be a bit tougher as Miami will be without 3 starters.

Then there’s the sub plot of the return of Vance Joseph to Miami. Given his Broncos have lost 7 games straight, he might want this even more than Gase. Also, let’s not forget he knows this defense and Matt Burke very well.

It doesn’t take pay per head bookie software to see that both teams actually look eerily similar: Defenses falling apart and lots of inconsistent play from their offenses. All signs point to a very sloppy game on Sunday, so barring a tie, at least one of these teams should end their losing streak.

But Fin Fans are split on what’s best for the long term health of the Dolphins.

Is winning or losing best for 2018 and beyond?

Mathematically, winning gives them a shot at the Playoffs. But realistically, it’s a snow balls shot in hell they make it. This is one reason many prefer the losing as it will certainly give them a Top 10 pick in the 2018 Draft.

Gase must prove he can still get this team to win

The problem with this season is the constant level of uncertainty. Basic aspects of the game seem like Herculean efforts when successfully done. Pre-snap penalties, knowing assignments, calling correct plays, not getting arrested, holding onto the football: routine aspects of the job have been ‘not so routine’ in 2017. So I get fans who say we need a top pick and that losing will be winning.

It all comes down on where you stand with this regime:

This regime lives or dies with Gase’s level of success. If Miami fails to correct its discipline issues and loses on top of it, then 2018 will have one extra anchor that it won’t need. It could very well set  the death nail for next year.

Given this season’s level of incompetence, I can’t fault anyone for wanting to move on from Gase… even though I think it’s a bit premature.

A 8-8 or 9-7 2017 team playing disciplined football is far better for the 2018 mindset than one that’s 4-12 and playing terribly.

A Fan’s take on everything is based on what you think about Gase

Of course, then we have to wonder will Chris Grier even be able even use the high picks wisely?Laremy Tunsil gives me nightmares thinking about how much he has under performed.

So if you think Gase and Co. aren’t in the best interest of Miami’s future, then lose baby, lose.

Truth be told, Gase is the primary reason for this season’s failure. He has made bad executive and game time decisions. Gase is the one setting the plate for everything post draft: Bad coaches, bad players playing, bad offensive calls… all are his direct responsibility. 

But Gase is still green and it’s totally feasible that he can grow. Yeah, it’s also fair to say it’s totally feasible that he doesn’t either. So there’s that.

Yet, if you are my camp and want Gase to succeed, he needs something to build off. The NFL is more about the mental side of things that the physical. The players need to believe in him–and right now I’m not sure they do… and by Gase’s responses in interviews, he needs to believe in himself. I might be dumb, but I’m holding out hope that Gase can figure it out. I hope this team can still show itself to be competent and win–even at the cost of some draft pick slots… plus I hate the Bills and Pats. Go Fins!!!


 

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23 comments

  • Steve

    Great job by the Dolphins they have been threw a lot this season. Their hard work is finally paying off with a win against The Denver Broncos. The Dolphins pulled through very well this week. GO FINS!

    • admin

      Still wished they had played a cleaner game Steve. Broncs gave them a lot of turnovers and negative plays to help balance out Cutler and Pouncey’s sloppy play. Trying to make the time to go over the vids you sent. Want to get serious with my knowledge of this draft… thanks for sending the info. Getting to it.

      • Steve

        Yeap!

        Always appreciate your sports columns Admin and the other fans.

        Yes! NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER MAY BE THE BEST MONTHS TO Evalute THE PLAYERs ENTERING THE 2018 DRAFT.

  • Lemmus

    …for f’s sake, where was this team the last 11 games? …yeah, playing better opponents, I know …but even though it was just Denver, they actually looked decent today

    …Drake made a giant step toward sealing the starting RB gig next season …if he can keep it up …there were a couple plays where he made a lot out of nothing …and then there were plays where the OL actually created a running lane for him …haven’t seen that in a looooooooong time

    …Parker did just the opposite, he’s trade bait right now

    …T-bum ought to be burning the lamp oil tonight, working out a new contract that Landry’s agent will actually let him sign …tomorrow, eh

    • admin

      I think the turnovers and big D plays covered over their mistakes. Still very sloppy, but Cutler and Pouncey made most of them… so one of them is gone for certain and the other likely gone. Drake is legit. But can he stay healthy. I was so impressed with him-so impressed. Davis did very well other than 1 missed block. McCain, Howard, Stills, Phillips showed who they can be. Still and McCain look like they have taken their game to the next level. Phillips is still a little inconsistent–but what a game, and Howard has had 2 games of improvement. I think Davis will be the RG going forward as well. 3 turnovers and 7 penalties is still wayyyy too sloppy. Brendel will likely be the C. Larsen is terrible at LG. He is depth or a RG and he won’t beat out Davis. Glad we got him on the cheap. I hope Eric Smith gets in a game… I think he could be a gem. Definitely better than Young. Did you see the Gronk hit? One of the cheapest hits I have ever seen and no ejection. Meanwhile McCain gets a near whiff and is kicked out.. NFL refs are trash, if not totally biased or paid off.

      • Lemmus

        …glad we finally agree on Larsen …I hope we get enough in draft to cut him
        …but there were some holes opened for Drake, haven’t seen that in any game until today …if Ajayi had gotten a few of those we’d have won some games we lost …Denver defense is either the worst we’ve seen (by far) or something clicked today

        …McCain has had a come-to-jesus moment with his game, he used to be marginal, now he’s making plays

        …out of the blue, Howard gets 2 interception and one TD …where has he been?

        …otoh, enough other teams in the playoff race won today to raise the bar still higher despite the win 🙁

  • Steve

    Joe Moorhead will bring discipline to our Miami Dolphins offense and coach good execution.

    The offense is based on pace and Joe will be balanced with the run and pass,” said Coyer, a longtime NFL defensive coordinator (Denver, Indianapolis) who was also a college DC at Pittsburgh, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Iowa and East Carolina.

    Coyer was at Pittsburgh when Moorhead spent a couple seasons as a grad assistant for Walt Harris.

    “(Moorhead) was a very valuable asset for us at Pittsburgh and we had a guy, (head coach) Walt Harris, who also has a great offensive mind,” Coyer said. “He had to bring Joe over to the offensive side.

  • Steve

    What does Joe Moorhead offer the Miami Dolphins football program?

    Moorhead’s eye-opening run as Fordham’s head coach had him squarely on James Franklin’s radar for some time. And after two years of poor offensive play, the time was right to go get Moorhead.

    The Lions’ offense scored just 23.2 points per game in 2015 (101st in FBS out of 27 teams), an average just slightly better than 2014 (20.6 ppg., 110th out of 125).

    Following Penn State’s blowout loss at Michigan State last November, Franklin cut ties with offensive coordinator John Donovan and hired Moorhead, a coach known for his up-tempo spread with a run-pass option (RPO) incorporated into each snap.

    A 1-10 team in 2011, the Rams won 38 of 51 games during Moorhead’s four years there and produced a dizzying number of school records on the offensive side.

    Army coach Jeff Monken, left, and Fordham coach Joe Moorhead shake hands after Fordham’s 37-35 win in an NCAA college football game Friday, Sept. 4, 2015, in West Point, N.Y. (AP Photo/Mike Groll)
    Skeptics might ask: Moorhead did it on the FCS level, but can he succeed in the big leagues?

    Actually, he already has.

    What does Joe Moorhead offer the Penn State football program as it tries to catch up with the Ohio States, Michigan States and Michigans in 2016?

    The great offenses that I’ve been around, the mentality of the offense is dictated by the offensive line. We’re not going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy over what’s perceived to have happened in the past. I’m very confident in our players, I’m confident in Coach Limegrover and his ability to develop them and I’m confident in our schemes’ ability to put them in position to be successful.”

    “At the end of the day, having the ability to physically dominate the guy in front of you and kick somebody’s ass for four quarters, we’re not looking to take any pressure or strain off of our offensive line,” said Moorhead, a married father of a three.

    “We want our offense to run through them. Certainly, we have a bevy of talent at the skill positions. But if your offensive line isn’t going to get it done, you probably should go play flag football.”

    Some may ask what is this about? Here is the Future Offensive Coordinator passing us bye! We need him here in Miami.

  • Steve

    Here is a Sample of Coach Venables Defensive strategy

    The major concern in Oklahoma over Venables’ defenses were how complicated they were and how much the secondary had to master. It seems, though, that his defenses usually confuse offenses much more than they confuse themselves.

    The Tigers always have a variety of blitzes dialed up to attack what you want to do. They’re always on the attack, looking to get offenses on their heels, and looking to surprise. The only time you should expect Venables to hold off on blitzes is when you expect him to bring the house.

    To this end, Venables’ playbook is similar to Brown’s in that it features virtually every popular school of blitz. They fire zone like most teams, but they mix in man/zone combos. They even brought out a three-deep, two-under, double A-gap Pat Narduzzi blitz out against the Buckeyes:

    In a game played by 18-to-24-year-olds under intense scrutiny, it pays to be both tough and aggressive. Venables is always aggressive and playing mind games with his opponents, and the results speak for themselves. He’s the top dog in the country.

  • Steve

    Okay Miami Dolphins We know who the best college Defensive Coordinator is let go get him.
    Brent Venables, Clemson Tigers

    Venables has two decades of cranking out some of the best defenses in all of football, but his split from Stoops and the Sooners has catapulted his career. Oklahoma pushed him out to make room for Mike Stoops’ return, after Oklahoma’s 2011 defeats to Texas Tech (a 41-38 loss that ended OU’s 39-game home winning streak) and Baylor (a 45-38 loss that sealed RG3’s Heisman) made it easier to sell it to fans and boosters.

    Venables then turned Clemson into a perennial top defense.

    Greatest achievement
    Shutting out an Urban Meyer offense in a Playoff game was no small feat, but the greater context of 2016 was amazing. It’s worth looking back to 2015, when the Tigers had to replace five starters, all to the NFL, and still produced a brilliant season. It was enough at the time to lead me to ask whether Venables was the finest DC in the land.

    • Phinfreak

      I love this guy as a Fins new DC.

      Gase won’t do it though. Gase makes very poor personnel and coaching decisions.

      Not to mention less than average play calls.

  • Steve

    The Dolphins most likely will be around 5th to 8 picked in the 2018 draft. What ever they want will be in reach.

    1. Sam Darnold USC QB
    2. Mason Rudolph Oklahoma State QB
    3. Minkah Fitzpatrick Alabama S
    4. Saquon Barkley Penn State RBF
    5. Harold Landry Boston College EDGE
    6. Derwin James Florida State S
    7. Josh Rosen UCLA QB
    8. Christian Wilkins Clemson DL3T
    9. Bradley Chubb NC State EDGE
    10. Mike McGlinchey Notre Dame OT
    11. Brian O’Neill Pittsburgh OT
    12. Arden Key LSU EDGE

  • Phinfreak

    I hope find get poned. 45-3. I want ROSS to fire tannenbaum, and Gase then to start entertaining offers to sell the franchise.

    Nothing other than new ownership will change the chain of disasters and incompetence.

  • Fritz

    Sorry, but under no circumstances can I root for my Dolphins to lose.

    The spot of the draft pick is really irrelevant. Even if the pick is top 5 there is no guarantee the player will be an impact, does Dion Jordan come to mind.
    It comes down to scouting, see Davon Godcheau, Jarvis Landry, Jesse Davis. Unfortunately, we don’t hit on enough impact players, see Charles Harris.

    So enough of this “rooting for them to tank” cause I’m not gonna do it. Instead, lets hope Grier can hit on better draft picks and Gase can improve as a head coach.

    • Lemmus

      …true, the % of fails in the 1st round is near 50 …but the higher the pick, except at QB, the better the results …so higher is better …as to Jordan, he’s starting at DE in Seattle today iirc …if he succeeds there, then that’s a fail on the phins player development ability rather than the draft itself (though I’m not even going to make like I’m defending the GM who made that pick)

      …like you, I can’t ever call for the phins to lose any game …but neither would I be surprised if they lost today …Von Millar vs our patchwork OL and beat up QB is just plain scary …but Denver has its own problems so I’d not be surprised by a phins win either …but I look at the rope-a-dope it would take to even have a shot at the playoffs and I just don’t believe we can run the table, or that it would be anything but a moral victory if we did …’cause not every one of the other teams is going to tank as well

      …and thus a high draft pick is likely …and well worth talking about …the Notre Dame G is just setting there and the higher the pick, the better the odds of him still being there for us …and the higher end at #5/6 would make it possible to trade down 10 slots and still get him …plus another 2nd round pick at least …and there would almost certainly be the C/OT/TE we have on our board

    • admin

      Honestly, Fritz for me if this team had top ten fundamentals everything would be going breezy. Either the coaches or players can’t hack it at the basics. This is SOOOO obvious. If they can’t fix it by next year then I’m ready to move on from this regime. But if they can fix it year for will look good with a good draft this year and next. So, I’m in no way hoping for a rebuild. Now if you asked what would be best, besides as win out and PO, I’d say 2 wins with three point loses and massive improvement in fundamentals along with some new starters showing something. I wouldn’t mind a good draft pick, but I won’t root for them to lose. But win or lose I just want to see 4 or less penalties per game and very few turnovers. This would show hope to me. Reid just turned over play calls to better focus on overseeing… Gase should take notice.

      • Steve

        Admin!

        On a serious Note: These two Quarterbacks must play behind Tennehill next season. The later is the Best in the draft just injured this season. Both are blue chip QB’s who can Out play any of our Starting and back up quarterbacks currently of the Miami Dolphins Roster. How would any of our back ups QB’s fair against Clemson or AlaBama right now? Don’t sugar coat the answer.

        3rd round
        Luke Falk QB Solid Day two QB
        https://youtu.be/c8gD1BqwbT0

        Currently a 6th Rounder:
        Deondre Francois**, QB, Florida State
        https://youtu.be/CQkjSSuY9KM (Bowl Game against Michigan)
        https://youtu.be/SfOjtrbot_8 ( game against Bama)
        https://youtu.be/twN0_R3CHPA (game against Clemson)

        The Dolphins have played around with our starting QB since 2012. Since then QB’s have made the playoffs their 1st season. QB’s have won bowl games as freshmen in college. Sophomore QB’s in college have won National Championships in college. We are Blind and in denial losers to except the excuses coming from this Miami Dolphins Organization each season.

  • Lemmus

    …been a phins fan way too long to ever root for them to tank …but that said, the lure of a high pick in every round is like pied piper music to my ears

    …btw, now that Moore is out injured and Fales is the dressed bu, I might get my wish to see him play after all …the OL has major issues, Cutler is not whole as yet, and the Denver DL has a monster pass rusher …I certainly don’t want to see Cutler hurt again, but I do want to see Fales play …and I’m not at all sure that he wouldn’t be an upgrade right now

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